VRM What We Are Working on Whats Next

From IIW

Convener: Doc Searls

Notes-taker: Judi Clark


  • John Kelly
  • Alex Rosen
  • Mike Ozburn
  • Joe Andrieu
  • Doc Searls
  • Jeff Stollman
  • Tim Burks
  • Greg Havercamp
  • Jim Fenton
  • Salim Ismail
  • Judi Clark
  • Greg Biggers
  • Rob Regan
  • Robert Simon
  • Nick Givotovsky
  • Abby Jenkins
  • Lou Klepner
  • Terry Hayes

Technology Discussed/Considered:

VRM broadly

Discussion notes, key understandings, outstanding questions, observations, and, if appropriate to this discussion: action items, next steps:

Advertising, even if improved to Nth degree, is still guesswork. Hard to get out of that mentality. Some ads are essentially catalogs (Vogue, etc). CRM basically same, can limit the amt of info that companies can know about their customers.

VRM is approach from other side: let people manage relationships w vendors. Trying to think thru ways to work out identity problems before relationships (in progress, we might be close enough).

Andre: 3 layers of identity. First version based around individual (federation). Having customer in control has ben theme running thru since beginning. Anybody can relate to anybody. Implied promise. VRM is one way to address it.

Players: (Britt B has Gov Rel Mgmt). Parties involved: Joe (Switchbook) and Doc, Adriana (in UK – MINE project), Iain Henderson (Personal data store, volunteer personal info). Allen Mitchell (buyer centric commerce forum).

Other tech: Higgins, Windley’s kinetics, lots of convergence (my stuff works with your stuff).

Information card: Doc witnessed conversation btwn Paul T (Higgins) and Kim C (Microsoft) hashing out information cards. Now w Drummond Reed (XRXI) and Charles Andres (I cards).

Spawn tech: Azigo (card selector and related services).

Single use case: change of address. We do it commonly, user is authoritative source, post office spends billions of dollars on this issue. Iain is doing it w Royal mail.

VRM is doing work around public media/broadcasting: PRI, NPR, PBX, 2 others. Grant possible to develop a radio w REL button.

Rel button now in two states: open or closed. Planning on implementing on iPhone or Android. Class of files/data on server for podcasting is store/forward. Rel button to implement donations, facilitates options like spooling the show or interacting w listeners, etc. Story of royalty rates for streaming radio/broadcasters: RIAA. Streaming rates set by gov, but not equitable for streaming stations that have lots of listeners. Contrast w MLOT: money left on table: people paying for goods they’re getting; not advertising nor donation. Like a shareware or Pay choice. Channel conflict as people move to Internet and away from location-based stations; needs to be fixed.

How does VRM deal with customer-side problem? Doc is unusual because he sends money to 10 diff radio stations. Wishes he could store some info that station could receive a message. Many things in the world that we want, but no way of codifying ways of promoting our need/want.

Joe: current legal framework for sharing data falls under copyright.

Doc: important distinction: copyright is a sell-side issue. we’re trying to solve problems from the other side. Working on Terms of Service.

EULAlizer: identifies/flags certain terms in EULA agreements

Desire to walk into a relationship on our terms. Loyalty cards.

Personal RFP: Doc’s loyalties: Chulula Hot Sauce not available in Boston. Pete’s Coffee. Dot Tel (new domain puts extensible data, zip into DNS (e.g., personal address manager).

Personal use cases? Address change management, and personal data store. Public radio. Search maps (no easy way to move search history from one provider to another; new way to move data around, with appropriate rights bundles)

Health care data: user as originator/authority and point of driver.

Questions: how to engage, what is expectation level, and when’s next VRM workshop? Mailing lists. Several committees, is basically barn raising. Next workshop date not set yet.